Courageous Conversations - By the Book
Copyrights South Bay Community Church
Sermon Preamble
We are starting a new sermon series called “Courageous Conversations.” We will be looking at some current event topics and issues. This will be a recurring theme from time to time. Courageous for this sermon series means the following: We need courage -to create safe spaces to be honest with one another, - to be quiet to truly hear another perspective, -to say “I don’t know” and hold the uncomfortable tensions of unanswered questions with humility in prayer, - to look at God’s Word with fresh eyes and listen for God’s voice, because even though we sincerely think we are right, we are human and may sincerely have it wrong, so we need humility. We need courage to have conversations that may result in agreeing to disagree, while committing to still love one another with grace, empathy, and compassion. It takes courage to have honest conversations where we may have opposite viewpoints. It can be very hard to still love without judgement or criticism and buck against all we may be feeling and judging. We need the courage to remember that we are all human and deeply loved by a gracious and compassionate God who loves us all just the same. This Courageous Conversations series is not about the opinions of talk show hosts or sharing our own opinions. As followers of Jesus, we must all begin from the same starting place and foundation. We start with THE BOOK we believe; we start with the Bible. As we begin this series looking at some hot topics from the foundation of God’s Word, our first courageous conversation is about God’s Word itself.
The Bible – everything begins and ends with this book
From sacred scrolls and manuscripts the words of the Bible have been around for millennia. Co-authored by God, the Bible has been miraculously preserved by God’s Spirit for thousands of years with surprising accuracy and consistency from manuscripts through the ages. The debated discrepancies around the text are inconsequential in considering 66 books written over a span of 1,500 years. The Biblical narrative itself has remained remarkable intact.
For thousands upon thousands of years, God’s Word has been a guide, a source of inspiration, comfort, and hope. God’s Word is a means for the Holy Spirit to convict, direct, and transform us. God’s Word is God’s expressed love to and for humanity. God’s Word is the only narrative of the specific revelation of God through Jesus Christ. As a follower of Christ, everything begins and ends with this book. Everything we believe, say, or do, every aspect of our lives is addressed in one way or another in the Bible.
Even when God’s Word has been misused and misapplied for oppression, misogyny, and selfish gain, followers of God recognize the issue is user error, not God’s Word itself. Plenty have used God’s Word to say what God never said. God’s truth will always prevail in the end; God will have the last word.
Scripture on the Bible as God’s Word
“The instructions of the Lord are perfect reviving the soul. The decrees of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple. The commandments of the Lord are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are clear, giving insight for living. Reverence for the Lord is pure, lasting forever. The laws of the Lord are true; each one is fair. They are more desirable than gold, even the finest gold. They are sweeter than honey, even honey dripping from the comb. They are a warning to your servant, a great reward for those who obey them.” (Psalms 19:7-11).
“All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
We joined King David and Paul is extoling the benefits and joys of God’s Word. Along with the joys of God’s Word, there can be challenges along the way. All of us at one time have struggled to understand a passage. Many of us started with a desire to read the entire Bible and lost steam along the way. At some point, many have questioned the following: Is the Bible really true, and can it be trusted? What about errors in translation? The Bible is so ancient; how do we even apply it to our time? As we continue to learn and grow, we discover that things we were taught is not at all what the Bible says.
Let’s listen to a conversation of Lead Pastor Tammy Long with Dr. Stan Long, Pastor Emeritus and founder of South Bay Community Church and father of Pastor Tammy Long, on the topic of the Bible.
Growing in understanding the truth of the Bible
At one time, Stan Long believed that Jesus would return before Stan Long’s 30th Birthday. His theological beliefs included no jewelry and no dancing. Stan Long matured into a new understanding of the Kingdom of God. He was always learning, always growing, always deepening in his theological understanding.
Pastor Tammy Long asked, how have you grappled with the Bible all these years? Now that he knows better, Stan Long apologized for taking his family through the gymnastics of his growth. He realized when he became 31 that Jesus was not returning by the time he was 30. Like Stan Long, as we grew up from being quiet young, we begin to realize that some things we thought about God in the scriptures and indeed some things we were taught about God were just not accurate.
Dr. Long has an insatiable appetite to know the truth, and constantly desiring more truth. In getting a better understanding of what is really the truth in studying the scriptures, he found that many things we interpreted incorrectly. For many things we did not understand the totality of context, environment, and culture, impacting the principles that God is saying to us. A lot of times we treat the Bible like it is a magic book, rather than a full revelation of God’s progressive unfolding of who God is and what God is doing in the world. Instead, we pull out little snippets, and we run with the snippets. Those little snippets are not what God is saying. Like Dr. Long know the truth, keep reading, studying, learning, growing, and trying to get a handle on what God is saying to us through the scriptures.
Relative truth and the Bible
Pastor Tammy Long asked about us living in a time when truth is considered relative. In speaking about truth, people don’t always know that to do with the Bible, so how do you interpret the passage in 2 Timothy 3:16-17? People get confused because they take the Bible as if every word is magic. We need to realize that scriptures are revealing principles. It is those principles that are true, not every little tidbit. What makes it so fascinating is that principles do not change with culture, generations, locations, or people.
Getting hold of the timeless principles of the Bible
Once we have gotten hold of the principle, we have hold of the truth that God is conveying. Sometimes getting hold of the principle is tough, because it is crowded into much other stuff that can overshadow the principle. It is similar to breaking loose the shell where a little nut is inside; sometimes you just have to pick it apart. It is the same way with the scriptures. For example, Jesus tells a story with details. It is not in the story details that you find God. You find God in what God is really saying through that story. When people don’t understand that they miss what God is saying; they come up with their own truth which has no validity or no track record, because it hasn’t been around longer than the people.
It then has no impact or influence on generations. The Bible has been here for thousands of years, and the Bible has shaped the lives of millions of people. People have stood on the scriptures when they did not know anything else. The Bible has revolutionized the world. My truth or your truth cannot do that and will not do that. The principles of the Bible are true; it is foolish to thing that your truth is the truth for you. There are more people in the world that just you. Not discovering the timeless principles is an excuse for not facing up to what the Bible really reveals about God’s desire for you to know the truth.
Understanding the Bible by hearing what the first hearers heard
Pastor Tammy Long noted that Dr. Stan Long has taught, coached, and mentored thousands of congregants, students, teachers, leaders, and pastors. She asked for any words of guidance or caution about reading and applying those principles from God’s Word to our day to day lives in ways that the Bible is still relevant for us today?
First, Stan Long replied that to understand the Bible, we need to hear what the first hearers heard. When we do not hear what the first hearers heard, we make the Bible say what it is not saying to us. Remember that the Bible was written to the first hearers, not to us. It was written for us, but not to us. Since it wasn’t to us, we have to understand what it was saying to the people it was written to. Then we can determine how it applies to the world in which we live in today. If we miss understanding what God was saying to the first hearers, we have not basis for what God is revealing and saying to us. This is so important!
For example, we need to understand what God was saying to Jacob, and is there a principle that God is also saying to us? The times in which people live impacts the way they communicate. If we miss the times, we miss the whole principle. Jesus tells parables with stories. Stories were the way Jewish people communicated. But if you do not understand this, you start making a story without the principle. We make it say something that it was never intended to say; we make it say not what was being said to the people who first heard it. It makes it hard for us, because it takes work, and we don’t want to put in work to understand the context, culture, language, and environment of the first hearers. It makes us grab the Bible at a surface level, and then we are disappointed when we get clarity that the Bible is not saying what we thought God was saying. Our whole faith and confidence can be challenged because now we’re not even sure there is a God. It is like starting down a slippery slope, and you just keep going until you do not know what to do. On the other hand, we should understand that God was speaking the word to those folks, and then that word, through the principle, is a word to us. If we go after the principle, we will have something we can stand on that will support us for whatever life brings to our lives.
Difference between interpretation and applications
Pastor Tammy Long asked about many interpretations of the Bible that say what God never intended to say. How can we know that? Dr. Long replied that the problem is that people don’t understand the difference between interpretation and application. There are many applications, but there are not many interpretations. The Bible either means what it says, or it doesn’t. We can get all kinds of applications off what the Bible says and the way in which we communicate. We communicate with each other as though applications are a different interpretation of the text, but applications are not different interpretations. A person hopefully is applying the truth of a text, but there is basically only one interpretation of the text. You can go all over applying a text, but there is a common interpretation.
Denominational differences from different applications of the same interpretation
Pastor Tammy asked about different applications that we call different interpretations that divide denominations. Dr. Long responded that baptism is an example of a difference in application, not a difference in interpretation. Differences in baptism might be looked at a good way. Every denomination agrees that a person’s baptism has some connection with water as some indication and symbolism of washing. Some people say all you need to do is pour it over your head; others say you need to be immersed in water; others say just pushing down into water is baptism. Those are all fine, and they may all be right because that is not the interpretation, but just different ways of applying the principle of cleansing and the part that water plays. Baptism is a simple illustration of the difference between interpretation and different ways of application.
Bible as made by both God and men
Pastor Tammy Long asked for a response when people say that the Bible is only a man-made book or that the Bible was written by white people? How do you respond when we get that pushback around the Bible? Dr. Long responded that both those statements are half-truths. The Bible was not written by men alone; it was written by both God and men. There is another path we could take in which God forces everything to be done in conjunction with us and does nothing apart from us. Man wrote it, but God was involved in it. Man wouldn’t talk about himself the way the Bible does; men do not like to call themselves sinners. We find other ways to describe ourselves. There are aspects of the Bible that we don’t enjoy saying about ourselves. That implies that there is something else here that is speaking to the very nature of man. If it was written by only men, men tend to speak to our head. But there is more than speaking to our head that challenges the totality of our being and confronts us. We cannot get away from it, but we keep going back to it. Not many books can do that. Yes, man wrote it, but God was a part of that writing.
Bible as written by people of color
If one says that the Bible was written by white people, that person would be misinformed. In reality, the scriptures were written primarily by Middle Eastern Israelites that are people of color. One can accurately state that the Bible is basically a people of color book written by people of color more so than a book for and by white men.
Reading the Bible by starting in the Gospels
Pastor Tammy Long asked about people who start reading at Genesis and then read from beginning to the end of the Bible. But by the time one gets to Leviticus, it is hard to keep going. Are there any suggestions for reading and understanding the Bible about where to begin? Dr. Long responded to put the King James Version back on the shelf, because it contributes to making it hard to read the Bible. There are many other contemporary versions of the Bible written in plain English that a person can understand. Mark Twain said it is not the things in the Bible I don’t understand that bother me; rather it is the thing I do understand that bothers me. There is enough of the scriptures in plain language that I do understand. Genesis is not a good place to start reading the Bible; it is basically a history of the development of the human race. If a person really wants to understand the Bible, then look to Jesus. To understand Jesus, you first look at the Gospels. If you start by reading Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you get a picture of Jesus that gives you some understanding of what God is really like. Then when you get to Romans, Timothy, and the others, you see an attempt on how to live out with other people what you see in Jesus. When starting to read the Bible, stay away from Genesis and Leviticus because it is written from a Jewish perspective. It’s woven with Jewish concepts and behaviors, and that is not who we are. Since we are not those people, we are going to miss a lot that is there in principle. Instead, start with the Gospels and move on to the Epistles. Understand that God is trying to help us learn how to live out what we see in Jesus pragmatically, and how we can make that work. There are all kinds of study tools and classes to help our understanding.
Bible needs to be reread, not rewritten
The author of a book from a Jewish class Dr. Long is taking says that the Bible does not need to be rewritten. The Bible does need to be reread. The Bible needs to be reread apart from a Western mindset in which we read into the scriptures what the scriptures are not saying. The reality is that people from most countries in Africa and in the Middle East have a better understanding of the Bible than we do because the Bible is consistent with the culture in which they live. The scriptures are more community oriented; we are much more individually oriented reading the Bible through the eyes of what is in it for me. They read into scripture the principle of what is in it for us. Generally, the Epistles were written to a gathering of people, attempting to live out what the Lord has said to us. This is an important thing about getting together when you learn from each other and the Spirit works through people as a group. From being in community, we help to sharpen and give insight to each other, and prevent each other from going off on a tangent - simply not American. American is just Jesus in Me, rather than Jesus in Us. How do I live this out with you, do the mission together, and impact the world as the Body of Christ? It isn’t just my church that is saving Fremont and the Bay Area, but we work together with other churches. This is a different way to turn this American ideal around to fit the culture out of which the Bible speaks. It is not good for a man to be alone because we are in this mission together.
Concluding Thoughts on the Bible, hot topics, comfort with both sides of some issues, common doubts
To start this sermon series, we start with the Bible, the truth of the Bible, the relevancy of the Bible, and that the Bible is our foundation. We are going to be looking at some challenging issues where the people of God are divided. Pastor Tammy Long expressed appreciation about interpretation vs. application. Part of what has us divided may be around issues of application. When we can respect the truth of the Bible and the truth of interpretation, then we can allow God go speak to our hearts as we seek how to apply the bible, and the principles of the Bible in the world in which we live.
Pastor Tammy Long asked Dr. Long for any thoughts on hot topics we will be looking at like human sexuality and women’s rights. Do you see division from arguments as interpretation vs. application? Dr. Long declared that what makes it so difficult is that we have been brainwashed toward thinking a certain way; we read the scriptures that way; we don’t go back to the scriptures with an open mind as to what the Bible really said until somebody challenges us to go back and ask if the Bible really said that. Some of the hot issues now are challenging us to go back and ask if the Bible really says that. We might find out that contrary to our assumption, the Bible does not say that. We then ask from where did that come? We then remember that a brother taught us that, but he learned it from a sister, who learned it from someone else, like an erroneous brainwashing without doing the work to arrive at the foundational principle God is saying. One of the benefits of what’s going on in the world now is that it is forcing us to ask hard questions about is that really true, or is that the only way it could be, or is it really what God is saying. Those are tough questions especially when you have grown up with something that has been repeatedly reinforced. We might say there is no way it could mean anything else, but maybe it could mean something else that another person with different views is sharing.
The other side of that is to be able to live without the answer. What we know may come down to Jesus loves me and people, without losing our faith or our confidence. We know the foundational principle that Jesus loves everybody. There are some aspects of how to work and figure that out for some hot topics. Figuring it out does not change those foundational principles. Christians needs to learn more how to be comfortable with both sides and be at peace.
Final thoughts
What God has revealed in God’s Word is so marvelous and the ways God has revealed it from the love stories of Solomon, to the struggles of Job, to the misgivings of the apostles. After Jesus had risen from the dead and was with them in Galilee, “When they saw Jesus, they worshipped him, but some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). What is there to doubt? Jesus was just resurrected and is among them. Even when it is plain as day, some people will still doubt.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
Sermon Preamble
-A courageous conversation as a follower of Jesus, will be marked by safety to be honest with each other, quietly hearing another perspective, occasionally admitting “I don’t know” as the scripture is silent or holds support for both sides of hot topics. We must hold unanswered questions with humility, look at God’s Word for truth with fresh eyes, and have conversations that may result in agreeing to disagree all while committing to still love one another with grace, empathy, and compassion. These are difficult for the natural human to do not under the control of the Holy Spirit. Which of these aspects of courageous conversation do you find most difficult in your natural self and why?
The Bible – everything begins and ends with this book
-God’s Word is the revelation of God in the written Word of the Bible, the spoken Word, and the living Word of Jesus on earth. Which of these do you find most helpful in growing in your understanding of God? Why?
What examples, if any, have you seen or heard that has misused or misapplied God’s Word to say what God never said?
Scripture on the Bible as God’s Word
-Review the scriptures of Psalm 19:7-11 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17. What in these scriptures resonates with you? What challenges have you faced in realizing the benefits and joys of God’s Word? Challenges can include whether the Bible is really true and can be trusted, the Bible as an ancient book not applicable to our time, or our being taught things that we later discover the Bible does not really say. How have you dealt with these possible challenges?
Growing in understanding the truth of the Bible
-Sometimes we or others do not understand the totality of context, environment, language, and culture for the original readers and hearers, impacting the principles that God is saying to us in scripture as a revelation of God’s progressive unfolding of who God is and what God is doing in the world. Instead, we treat the Bible like a book of magic, taking little snippets that are not what God is saying. When have you noticed others or when have you yourself isolated a snippet from the Bible, but the snippet is not what God is saying?
Relative truth and the Bible
-We need to understand a tidbit from scripture based on based on the context, environment, language, and culture of the original readers and hearers of the scripture. Only with this understanding can we discover the principle of what God is saying. For application to today, why is it important to deal with principles that do not change with culture, generations, locations, or people, not simply with tidbits from scripture of what God was saying to the original hearers?
Getting hold of the timeless principles of the Bible-
What are the differences between a timeless principle of the Bible, a tidbit of scripture written to the first hearers in the biblical world, and a tidbit of scripture that is not a biblical principle, but we try to apply it to our current world?
Understanding the Bible by hearing what the first hearers heard
-Why is it so important to hear scripture in ways heard by the first hearers in biblical times? Why do we need to understand the people, place, and time to understand what God is saying in scripture?
Difference between interpretation and applications
-What is the difference between an interpretation of a scriptural text and its applications? How can different applications be based on one common interpretation?
Denominational differences from different applications of the same interpretation
-When there are denominational differences from different applications, such as baptism and the Lord’s Supper, what foundational interpretation is there upon which denominations can agree?
Bible as made by both God and men
-If humans wrote the Bible without involvement of God, how would the writings of scripture be radically different?
Bible as written by people of color
-What evidence and historical record are you aware of supporting the truth that the people who wrote the Bible and were the center of Christian thought in the first few centuries A.D. were people of color from the Middle East and Africa, not written by Caucasians as depicted by Hollywood and the Western mindset?
Reading the Bible by starting in the Gospels
-For someone starting to read the Bible, why would you recommend beginning with the Gospels and the Epistles to understand the principles of what God is really saying?
Bible needs to be reread, not rewritten
-Why might people in the countries in the Middle East and Africa better understand the biblical world and what God is saying to people in that biblical time than the modern Western mindset? How does the orientation of countries in the Middle East and Africa (community) give better understanding than the orientation of the modern United States (individual)? How is the principle of community more helpful in the mission of God’s Kingdom than individual accomplishments?
Concluding thoughts on the Bible, hot topics, comfort with both sides of some issues, common doubts
-What is causing the current divisions within the Church, not allowing for the unity under the Holy Spirit? Are the divides honest differences in interpretation or rather various applications of a common interpretation of the Bible? What have you seen or experienced regarding some being taught as truth something God is really not saying?
-Are you rereading the scriptures on controversial topics to make sure of what God is really saying? In this process, why is it important to reread the biblical scripture, listen, and share with each other what God is saying?
-On some issues not explicitly dealt with in the scriptures how do you experience comfort and peace without declaring one side has the truth for a contemporary hot topic?
Sermon Preamble
We are starting a new sermon series called “Courageous Conversations.” We will be looking at some current event topics and issues. This will be a recurring theme from time to time. Courageous for this sermon series means the following: We need courage -to create safe spaces to be honest with one another, - to be quiet to truly hear another perspective, -to say “I don’t know” and hold the uncomfortable tensions of unanswered questions with humility in prayer, - to look at God’s Word with fresh eyes and listen for God’s voice, because even though we sincerely think we are right, we are human and may sincerely have it wrong, so we need humility. We need courage to have conversations that may result in agreeing to disagree, while committing to still love one another with grace, empathy, and compassion. It takes courage to have honest conversations where we may have opposite viewpoints. It can be very hard to still love without judgement or criticism and buck against all we may be feeling and judging. We need the courage to remember that we are all human and deeply loved by a gracious and compassionate God who loves us all just the same. This Courageous Conversations series is not about the opinions of talk show hosts or sharing our own opinions. As followers of Jesus, we must all begin from the same starting place and foundation. We start with THE BOOK we believe; we start with the Bible. As we begin this series looking at some hot topics from the foundation of God’s Word, our first courageous conversation is about God’s Word itself.
The Bible – everything begins and ends with this book
From sacred scrolls and manuscripts the words of the Bible have been around for millennia. Co-authored by God, the Bible has been miraculously preserved by God’s Spirit for thousands of years with surprising accuracy and consistency from manuscripts through the ages. The debated discrepancies around the text are inconsequential in considering 66 books written over a span of 1,500 years. The Biblical narrative itself has remained remarkable intact.
For thousands upon thousands of years, God’s Word has been a guide, a source of inspiration, comfort, and hope. God’s Word is a means for the Holy Spirit to convict, direct, and transform us. God’s Word is God’s expressed love to and for humanity. God’s Word is the only narrative of the specific revelation of God through Jesus Christ. As a follower of Christ, everything begins and ends with this book. Everything we believe, say, or do, every aspect of our lives is addressed in one way or another in the Bible.
Even when God’s Word has been misused and misapplied for oppression, misogyny, and selfish gain, followers of God recognize the issue is user error, not God’s Word itself. Plenty have used God’s Word to say what God never said. God’s truth will always prevail in the end; God will have the last word.
Scripture on the Bible as God’s Word
“The instructions of the Lord are perfect reviving the soul. The decrees of the Lord are trustworthy, making wise the simple. The commandments of the Lord are right, bringing joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are clear, giving insight for living. Reverence for the Lord is pure, lasting forever. The laws of the Lord are true; each one is fair. They are more desirable than gold, even the finest gold. They are sweeter than honey, even honey dripping from the comb. They are a warning to your servant, a great reward for those who obey them.” (Psalms 19:7-11).
“All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
We joined King David and Paul is extoling the benefits and joys of God’s Word. Along with the joys of God’s Word, there can be challenges along the way. All of us at one time have struggled to understand a passage. Many of us started with a desire to read the entire Bible and lost steam along the way. At some point, many have questioned the following: Is the Bible really true, and can it be trusted? What about errors in translation? The Bible is so ancient; how do we even apply it to our time? As we continue to learn and grow, we discover that things we were taught is not at all what the Bible says.
Let’s listen to a conversation of Lead Pastor Tammy Long with Dr. Stan Long, Pastor Emeritus and founder of South Bay Community Church and father of Pastor Tammy Long, on the topic of the Bible.
Growing in understanding the truth of the Bible
At one time, Stan Long believed that Jesus would return before Stan Long’s 30th Birthday. His theological beliefs included no jewelry and no dancing. Stan Long matured into a new understanding of the Kingdom of God. He was always learning, always growing, always deepening in his theological understanding.
Pastor Tammy Long asked, how have you grappled with the Bible all these years? Now that he knows better, Stan Long apologized for taking his family through the gymnastics of his growth. He realized when he became 31 that Jesus was not returning by the time he was 30. Like Stan Long, as we grew up from being quiet young, we begin to realize that some things we thought about God in the scriptures and indeed some things we were taught about God were just not accurate.
Dr. Long has an insatiable appetite to know the truth, and constantly desiring more truth. In getting a better understanding of what is really the truth in studying the scriptures, he found that many things we interpreted incorrectly. For many things we did not understand the totality of context, environment, and culture, impacting the principles that God is saying to us. A lot of times we treat the Bible like it is a magic book, rather than a full revelation of God’s progressive unfolding of who God is and what God is doing in the world. Instead, we pull out little snippets, and we run with the snippets. Those little snippets are not what God is saying. Like Dr. Long know the truth, keep reading, studying, learning, growing, and trying to get a handle on what God is saying to us through the scriptures.
Relative truth and the Bible
Pastor Tammy Long asked about us living in a time when truth is considered relative. In speaking about truth, people don’t always know that to do with the Bible, so how do you interpret the passage in 2 Timothy 3:16-17? People get confused because they take the Bible as if every word is magic. We need to realize that scriptures are revealing principles. It is those principles that are true, not every little tidbit. What makes it so fascinating is that principles do not change with culture, generations, locations, or people.
Getting hold of the timeless principles of the Bible
Once we have gotten hold of the principle, we have hold of the truth that God is conveying. Sometimes getting hold of the principle is tough, because it is crowded into much other stuff that can overshadow the principle. It is similar to breaking loose the shell where a little nut is inside; sometimes you just have to pick it apart. It is the same way with the scriptures. For example, Jesus tells a story with details. It is not in the story details that you find God. You find God in what God is really saying through that story. When people don’t understand that they miss what God is saying; they come up with their own truth which has no validity or no track record, because it hasn’t been around longer than the people.
It then has no impact or influence on generations. The Bible has been here for thousands of years, and the Bible has shaped the lives of millions of people. People have stood on the scriptures when they did not know anything else. The Bible has revolutionized the world. My truth or your truth cannot do that and will not do that. The principles of the Bible are true; it is foolish to thing that your truth is the truth for you. There are more people in the world that just you. Not discovering the timeless principles is an excuse for not facing up to what the Bible really reveals about God’s desire for you to know the truth.
Understanding the Bible by hearing what the first hearers heard
Pastor Tammy Long noted that Dr. Stan Long has taught, coached, and mentored thousands of congregants, students, teachers, leaders, and pastors. She asked for any words of guidance or caution about reading and applying those principles from God’s Word to our day to day lives in ways that the Bible is still relevant for us today?
First, Stan Long replied that to understand the Bible, we need to hear what the first hearers heard. When we do not hear what the first hearers heard, we make the Bible say what it is not saying to us. Remember that the Bible was written to the first hearers, not to us. It was written for us, but not to us. Since it wasn’t to us, we have to understand what it was saying to the people it was written to. Then we can determine how it applies to the world in which we live in today. If we miss understanding what God was saying to the first hearers, we have not basis for what God is revealing and saying to us. This is so important!
For example, we need to understand what God was saying to Jacob, and is there a principle that God is also saying to us? The times in which people live impacts the way they communicate. If we miss the times, we miss the whole principle. Jesus tells parables with stories. Stories were the way Jewish people communicated. But if you do not understand this, you start making a story without the principle. We make it say something that it was never intended to say; we make it say not what was being said to the people who first heard it. It makes it hard for us, because it takes work, and we don’t want to put in work to understand the context, culture, language, and environment of the first hearers. It makes us grab the Bible at a surface level, and then we are disappointed when we get clarity that the Bible is not saying what we thought God was saying. Our whole faith and confidence can be challenged because now we’re not even sure there is a God. It is like starting down a slippery slope, and you just keep going until you do not know what to do. On the other hand, we should understand that God was speaking the word to those folks, and then that word, through the principle, is a word to us. If we go after the principle, we will have something we can stand on that will support us for whatever life brings to our lives.
Difference between interpretation and applications
Pastor Tammy Long asked about many interpretations of the Bible that say what God never intended to say. How can we know that? Dr. Long replied that the problem is that people don’t understand the difference between interpretation and application. There are many applications, but there are not many interpretations. The Bible either means what it says, or it doesn’t. We can get all kinds of applications off what the Bible says and the way in which we communicate. We communicate with each other as though applications are a different interpretation of the text, but applications are not different interpretations. A person hopefully is applying the truth of a text, but there is basically only one interpretation of the text. You can go all over applying a text, but there is a common interpretation.
Denominational differences from different applications of the same interpretation
Pastor Tammy asked about different applications that we call different interpretations that divide denominations. Dr. Long responded that baptism is an example of a difference in application, not a difference in interpretation. Differences in baptism might be looked at a good way. Every denomination agrees that a person’s baptism has some connection with water as some indication and symbolism of washing. Some people say all you need to do is pour it over your head; others say you need to be immersed in water; others say just pushing down into water is baptism. Those are all fine, and they may all be right because that is not the interpretation, but just different ways of applying the principle of cleansing and the part that water plays. Baptism is a simple illustration of the difference between interpretation and different ways of application.
Bible as made by both God and men
Pastor Tammy Long asked for a response when people say that the Bible is only a man-made book or that the Bible was written by white people? How do you respond when we get that pushback around the Bible? Dr. Long responded that both those statements are half-truths. The Bible was not written by men alone; it was written by both God and men. There is another path we could take in which God forces everything to be done in conjunction with us and does nothing apart from us. Man wrote it, but God was involved in it. Man wouldn’t talk about himself the way the Bible does; men do not like to call themselves sinners. We find other ways to describe ourselves. There are aspects of the Bible that we don’t enjoy saying about ourselves. That implies that there is something else here that is speaking to the very nature of man. If it was written by only men, men tend to speak to our head. But there is more than speaking to our head that challenges the totality of our being and confronts us. We cannot get away from it, but we keep going back to it. Not many books can do that. Yes, man wrote it, but God was a part of that writing.
Bible as written by people of color
If one says that the Bible was written by white people, that person would be misinformed. In reality, the scriptures were written primarily by Middle Eastern Israelites that are people of color. One can accurately state that the Bible is basically a people of color book written by people of color more so than a book for and by white men.
Reading the Bible by starting in the Gospels
Pastor Tammy Long asked about people who start reading at Genesis and then read from beginning to the end of the Bible. But by the time one gets to Leviticus, it is hard to keep going. Are there any suggestions for reading and understanding the Bible about where to begin? Dr. Long responded to put the King James Version back on the shelf, because it contributes to making it hard to read the Bible. There are many other contemporary versions of the Bible written in plain English that a person can understand. Mark Twain said it is not the things in the Bible I don’t understand that bother me; rather it is the thing I do understand that bothers me. There is enough of the scriptures in plain language that I do understand. Genesis is not a good place to start reading the Bible; it is basically a history of the development of the human race. If a person really wants to understand the Bible, then look to Jesus. To understand Jesus, you first look at the Gospels. If you start by reading Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you get a picture of Jesus that gives you some understanding of what God is really like. Then when you get to Romans, Timothy, and the others, you see an attempt on how to live out with other people what you see in Jesus. When starting to read the Bible, stay away from Genesis and Leviticus because it is written from a Jewish perspective. It’s woven with Jewish concepts and behaviors, and that is not who we are. Since we are not those people, we are going to miss a lot that is there in principle. Instead, start with the Gospels and move on to the Epistles. Understand that God is trying to help us learn how to live out what we see in Jesus pragmatically, and how we can make that work. There are all kinds of study tools and classes to help our understanding.
Bible needs to be reread, not rewritten
The author of a book from a Jewish class Dr. Long is taking says that the Bible does not need to be rewritten. The Bible does need to be reread. The Bible needs to be reread apart from a Western mindset in which we read into the scriptures what the scriptures are not saying. The reality is that people from most countries in Africa and in the Middle East have a better understanding of the Bible than we do because the Bible is consistent with the culture in which they live. The scriptures are more community oriented; we are much more individually oriented reading the Bible through the eyes of what is in it for me. They read into scripture the principle of what is in it for us. Generally, the Epistles were written to a gathering of people, attempting to live out what the Lord has said to us. This is an important thing about getting together when you learn from each other and the Spirit works through people as a group. From being in community, we help to sharpen and give insight to each other, and prevent each other from going off on a tangent - simply not American. American is just Jesus in Me, rather than Jesus in Us. How do I live this out with you, do the mission together, and impact the world as the Body of Christ? It isn’t just my church that is saving Fremont and the Bay Area, but we work together with other churches. This is a different way to turn this American ideal around to fit the culture out of which the Bible speaks. It is not good for a man to be alone because we are in this mission together.
Concluding Thoughts on the Bible, hot topics, comfort with both sides of some issues, common doubts
To start this sermon series, we start with the Bible, the truth of the Bible, the relevancy of the Bible, and that the Bible is our foundation. We are going to be looking at some challenging issues where the people of God are divided. Pastor Tammy Long expressed appreciation about interpretation vs. application. Part of what has us divided may be around issues of application. When we can respect the truth of the Bible and the truth of interpretation, then we can allow God go speak to our hearts as we seek how to apply the bible, and the principles of the Bible in the world in which we live.
Pastor Tammy Long asked Dr. Long for any thoughts on hot topics we will be looking at like human sexuality and women’s rights. Do you see division from arguments as interpretation vs. application? Dr. Long declared that what makes it so difficult is that we have been brainwashed toward thinking a certain way; we read the scriptures that way; we don’t go back to the scriptures with an open mind as to what the Bible really said until somebody challenges us to go back and ask if the Bible really said that. Some of the hot issues now are challenging us to go back and ask if the Bible really says that. We might find out that contrary to our assumption, the Bible does not say that. We then ask from where did that come? We then remember that a brother taught us that, but he learned it from a sister, who learned it from someone else, like an erroneous brainwashing without doing the work to arrive at the foundational principle God is saying. One of the benefits of what’s going on in the world now is that it is forcing us to ask hard questions about is that really true, or is that the only way it could be, or is it really what God is saying. Those are tough questions especially when you have grown up with something that has been repeatedly reinforced. We might say there is no way it could mean anything else, but maybe it could mean something else that another person with different views is sharing.
The other side of that is to be able to live without the answer. What we know may come down to Jesus loves me and people, without losing our faith or our confidence. We know the foundational principle that Jesus loves everybody. There are some aspects of how to work and figure that out for some hot topics. Figuring it out does not change those foundational principles. Christians needs to learn more how to be comfortable with both sides and be at peace.
Final thoughts
What God has revealed in God’s Word is so marvelous and the ways God has revealed it from the love stories of Solomon, to the struggles of Job, to the misgivings of the apostles. After Jesus had risen from the dead and was with them in Galilee, “When they saw Jesus, they worshipped him, but some doubted” (Matthew 28:17). What is there to doubt? Jesus was just resurrected and is among them. Even when it is plain as day, some people will still doubt.
DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
Sermon Preamble
-A courageous conversation as a follower of Jesus, will be marked by safety to be honest with each other, quietly hearing another perspective, occasionally admitting “I don’t know” as the scripture is silent or holds support for both sides of hot topics. We must hold unanswered questions with humility, look at God’s Word for truth with fresh eyes, and have conversations that may result in agreeing to disagree all while committing to still love one another with grace, empathy, and compassion. These are difficult for the natural human to do not under the control of the Holy Spirit. Which of these aspects of courageous conversation do you find most difficult in your natural self and why?
The Bible – everything begins and ends with this book
-God’s Word is the revelation of God in the written Word of the Bible, the spoken Word, and the living Word of Jesus on earth. Which of these do you find most helpful in growing in your understanding of God? Why?
What examples, if any, have you seen or heard that has misused or misapplied God’s Word to say what God never said?
Scripture on the Bible as God’s Word
-Review the scriptures of Psalm 19:7-11 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17. What in these scriptures resonates with you? What challenges have you faced in realizing the benefits and joys of God’s Word? Challenges can include whether the Bible is really true and can be trusted, the Bible as an ancient book not applicable to our time, or our being taught things that we later discover the Bible does not really say. How have you dealt with these possible challenges?
Growing in understanding the truth of the Bible
-Sometimes we or others do not understand the totality of context, environment, language, and culture for the original readers and hearers, impacting the principles that God is saying to us in scripture as a revelation of God’s progressive unfolding of who God is and what God is doing in the world. Instead, we treat the Bible like a book of magic, taking little snippets that are not what God is saying. When have you noticed others or when have you yourself isolated a snippet from the Bible, but the snippet is not what God is saying?
Relative truth and the Bible
-We need to understand a tidbit from scripture based on based on the context, environment, language, and culture of the original readers and hearers of the scripture. Only with this understanding can we discover the principle of what God is saying. For application to today, why is it important to deal with principles that do not change with culture, generations, locations, or people, not simply with tidbits from scripture of what God was saying to the original hearers?
Getting hold of the timeless principles of the Bible-
What are the differences between a timeless principle of the Bible, a tidbit of scripture written to the first hearers in the biblical world, and a tidbit of scripture that is not a biblical principle, but we try to apply it to our current world?
Understanding the Bible by hearing what the first hearers heard
-Why is it so important to hear scripture in ways heard by the first hearers in biblical times? Why do we need to understand the people, place, and time to understand what God is saying in scripture?
Difference between interpretation and applications
-What is the difference between an interpretation of a scriptural text and its applications? How can different applications be based on one common interpretation?
Denominational differences from different applications of the same interpretation
-When there are denominational differences from different applications, such as baptism and the Lord’s Supper, what foundational interpretation is there upon which denominations can agree?
Bible as made by both God and men
-If humans wrote the Bible without involvement of God, how would the writings of scripture be radically different?
Bible as written by people of color
-What evidence and historical record are you aware of supporting the truth that the people who wrote the Bible and were the center of Christian thought in the first few centuries A.D. were people of color from the Middle East and Africa, not written by Caucasians as depicted by Hollywood and the Western mindset?
Reading the Bible by starting in the Gospels
-For someone starting to read the Bible, why would you recommend beginning with the Gospels and the Epistles to understand the principles of what God is really saying?
Bible needs to be reread, not rewritten
-Why might people in the countries in the Middle East and Africa better understand the biblical world and what God is saying to people in that biblical time than the modern Western mindset? How does the orientation of countries in the Middle East and Africa (community) give better understanding than the orientation of the modern United States (individual)? How is the principle of community more helpful in the mission of God’s Kingdom than individual accomplishments?
Concluding thoughts on the Bible, hot topics, comfort with both sides of some issues, common doubts
-What is causing the current divisions within the Church, not allowing for the unity under the Holy Spirit? Are the divides honest differences in interpretation or rather various applications of a common interpretation of the Bible? What have you seen or experienced regarding some being taught as truth something God is really not saying?
-Are you rereading the scriptures on controversial topics to make sure of what God is really saying? In this process, why is it important to reread the biblical scripture, listen, and share with each other what God is saying?
-On some issues not explicitly dealt with in the scriptures how do you experience comfort and peace without declaring one side has the truth for a contemporary hot topic?
Posted in Courageous Conversations
Posted in courage, conversation, Bible, book, Word, scripture, Psalm 19:, 2 Timothy 3, understand, truth, relative truth, interpret, apply, application, denominations, differences, writers of Bible, Start in Gospels, Start in Epistles, reread bible, hot topics
Posted in courage, conversation, Bible, book, Word, scripture, Psalm 19:, 2 Timothy 3, understand, truth, relative truth, interpret, apply, application, denominations, differences, writers of Bible, Start in Gospels, Start in Epistles, reread bible, hot topics
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